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Join myself, Jesse and a our guest Walt on the topic of corporal punishment AKA whopping that ass. Take a journey with us as we discuss how we were punished as children and what we have carried over to our parenting styles. We just might surprise you in this episode! Chime in and pass this one along as we make you think, laugh and maybe cry from your PTSD of your own childhood trauma!
You need a brew?
Dex:Oh man, I got my sponsorship going. This is what happens, dude. Every time we start drinking and we get a little sponsorship, go away. Watch the little Jake Paul. Get beat up. End up recording the podcast, man. So welcome to another episode of Perception and Reality. I am Dex from a man, Jesse, special guest. Walt. We are going to talk about corporal punishment, a k a assault on children.
Jesse:What just whooping your child's ass cuz it works just like we got it.
Dex:Hey, I'm not gonna lie, I got spanked.
Jesse:you walk
Walt:I did. I mean my grandmother had a whole tree that was a switch tree that we had to go pick ourselves. So it worked out, you know, and um, it was a lot of us, my grandmother has at least 20 grandkids, but probably more like 40.
Dex:So, so that tree was bare at some point.
Walt:Never. It never ran dry. It is like the gift that keep on giving,
Dex:it came from the blood of Patriots.
Walt:you know,
Dex:yeah. Let me, um, let me ask you this question cuz I was thinking about it on my way down cuz right now we're currently recording in Jesse's basement and I was thinking about the many steps to get down here and I was thinking the distance between the tree and the house. From which you had to pick your switch from. What was that like Baton death march? Like
Walt:it was right out the back door.
Dex:It was right out the back door?
Walt:It was not a long walk, like exit out the back door, go down some steps, and then right there
Dex:wait, were you walking slowly or anything? Just, just kind of prolong your,
Walt:at this you knew it was already written. So it was like this, let's get it over with you may walk slow, but you know it is going to happen. There's no, there's no talking to yourself out of it is no come to Jesus moment. It is going to happen.
Dex:So, did you try and find a switch that would like break easily in her hands or anything? Like, tell me about this process.
Walt:Not after the first time, because once you find that switch that broke, then she would go handpick one herself.
Dex:Oh yeah.
Walt:so that would be two almost. And one. You would get that until it breaks. And if it breaks, like, oh, you picked one that broke. I'm gonna go get one that show you how to do it for next time.
Dex:okay.
Walt:So you got that switch till it broke and then she went and go and went and, and got a, a switch that wouldn't break and so you got it again.
Dex:I'm just picturing grandma Walter walking out,
Walt:Ooh, Afari Williams.
Dex:Go walking past the switch tree over to the old oak tree, tearing down some , nobby wood, something with the little moss, maybe a little uh, um, poison ivy on the end of it. So she knows is, is this, is this truth coming back? You got that ptsd look in your eye
Walt:man. The ptsd is real. It was literally right out the back door. You know the screen, we usually have the main door open cuz I was there in the summertime, and so the screen door will be the only barrier. You could probably grab it from right there, but you walk down just to get it from the, the root, you know, make sure that, you know, you got the whole switch That's why you had to walk down the, the three or four steps to get it from the Root,
Dex:I noticed during the, the telling of the story, you're sweating profusely. Yeah. Is that a byproduct of your sponsorship or just a recollection of
Walt:just bad memories.
Dex:bad memories. Okay.
Jesse:Yo,
Dex:What about you Jay? Man,
Jesse:you know what, um, this is kind of funny, but, uh, like the perspective reality changes is that you could tell that his family was probably more in the country. Cuz my dad probably grew up more in the city cuz he didn't ask me to go get switches cuz switches weren't really out the city like that.
Walt:This was the country.
Jesse:So they got more creative and instead of you just getting that ass whooping with the clothes on, you just got, had to get beared. And, got that ass whipping from the belt. So, but my dad also had like some of the biggest hands, , like we used to call him Boulderer hands, cuz it's like, if you look at his fist, it's just huge So, I mean, I was smarter than most mine. But, uh, but yeah, they didn't, we didn't, we didn't have to go get on switches cause I don't think our para, my pops didn't really think switches. They were from the city. So like, nah, I got a belt on though.
Dex:Ain't no tree on this yard.
Jesse:My mom had shoes in great hands. I mean, if she jabbed it would be fast. I mean, she didn't jab me. It was just a open hand smack, but you never knew it was coming.
Dex:it. Okay. Was she south paw or standard?
Jesse:She was definitely right hand strong. So I would say she was orthodox for sure.
Dex:okay,
Jesse:cool.
Dex:So she can stir some oatmeal and still pop
Jesse:She did the whole like, the Mayweather. He keeps his hands down, jabs you. That's her hands were you didn't see it coming. Hands weren't up. It just came from outta nowhere. Like by the time you noticed you saw it was, you already got hit. . It, it was too late.
Dex:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jesse:You know, but hey, that shit made me respect the hell out of it though.
Dex:It's, you know, uh, an affinity for boxing is definitely where this conversation began. So, I too got spanked, but I did not pass the torch onto my children. And I am going to tell you guys why and I'm gonna, it's gonna be a series of questions
Jesse:I just have to say there's some emotional damage. Go ahead. Yeah I would say this, um, before you start, yeah. For me it worked, Walt?
Walt:It did work for me.
Jesse:And I would say that there is a big fine line between getting whooped and getting beat.
Walt:or abused.
Jesse:Cuz sometimes if you did something bad enough, you deserve to get a beating. But not one whoop I received was unjustified.
Dex:not a Mama Verde jab?
Jesse:You know, you, your parents go like, Hey, if all y'all don't stop, all y'all get your ass whooped. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, that's also teaching you like, be a team as siblings. You may be innocent, but you know, it's like they do in military and sports. It's like everybody pays. Right. So kept it, kept us together at the same time
Walt:I must admit the same thing. Like never have I got no whooping just because my parents had a bad day. You know? Never, it was always my actions that call a butt whooping.
Jesse:Now I, we'll say if they're having a bad day, the ass will became a lot faster than usual. It was less patience, but hey, I didn't mean to mess up your emotional damage, uh,
Dex:Oh, no, no, no. By all mean, I love, I love hearing from you guys. I have a completely different reasoning than that. So the three of us, we know each other from our kids playing baseball together. Right. If your kid did something, would I be in the right to put my hands on them?
Walt:No.
Jesse:Uh, it depends, man, to me it depends on what the, what the situation was. Cause I grew up where, you know, if I was around in a certain neighborhood and I was doing something wrong, parents could yank me up and do what they had to do. I didn't really mess up. But there are moments when kids are so bad where you pop 'em to get it right. I wouldn't do it yours. But like back in the day, that was a standard. I went to a private school called Gantz and they popped you if you didn't learn something in time or if you messed up,
Dex:Uhhuh. Was that, uh, Gantt Correctional Facility? Because I, I think I'm familiar with it.
Jesse:this place is a, honestly, this was a Macon and I went for like one
Dex:Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Jesse:was, it made me smart as hell. Cause I, if you didn't learn something, you had two times you got pop Wow. Paddle hand. , Dex: Okay. I, have a completely different perspective. If the child is mine or not mine, that is still technically assault, right? No.
Walt:No.
Dex:How is it not assault ? Under a legal definition it's assault, putting your hands on someone else
Jesse:there.
Dex:malice is assault
Jesse:sometimes Assault is warranted
Dex:I didn't say it wasn't Warren. No, nobody's saying justification. What we're saying is the legal definition of assault and battery.
Walt:But you said with malice, this is out love.
Dex:It's never out of, I mean, I don't love that other person's kid. I like you guys. I don't love your kids. I can't stand your kids. I wanna choke your kids
Jesse:Fuck you. You too, man.
Dex:But in fairness, I don't like my own kids, you know? But I look at it as if I put my hands on you guys, that would be assault at age 18 Walt. That would be assault at age 17, Walt. Would that be discipline or would that be assault?
Walt:Well, it's a disciplinary act. So it's not assault. It's stray, away from doing the wrong things. Because sometimes if we don't teach our kids, the street's going to teach our kids.
Dex:But if I'm disciplining somebody at the end of the bar, that is a grown ass man that is of legal age to drink, I can't use the defense of discipline. It would still be assault.
Jesse:When I go to the judge, I think in DC they had like a, um, mutual combat kind of Oh no, that's, uh, agree.
Dex:No, no, that's Washington state. Uh, maybe DC also, but I know for, I know what you're talking
Jesse:It's one of the Washingtons,
Dex:called, uh, dual, uh, a duals is what it is. Where you can, you can have a supervised dual, you know, if you got a problem with somebody in the bar, you guys can choose the dual. You have to have a police officer right there. As soon as one person goes down the duals over with, From my understanding of it, I don't understand all the intricacies of the law. I'm not a lawyer. It's, I'm just saying what I know, but I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about 18 year old Walt, me, quote unquote disciplining him
Jesse:as a dad. Like if you were his dad and he was 18,
Dex:I'm just a random person. And then versus 17 year old Walt, when I'm disciplining him now, which, which one are we talking about?
Jesse:Are we talking, we talking about father to son or
Dex:it doesn't matter.
Jesse:I mean, my kid tries me at 1821. I'm still whooping his ass,
Dex:but then at point
Jesse:it's, he's getting his ass with more like a man at that
Dex:age. But at 18, he's an adult. Right.
Jesse:I don't listen. I'm always his dad. So you trying to, you trying to get like real tentacle
Dex:like, I am getting technic because I, because the legal definition of it is that that's what I'm working with. I'm working with the legal definition.
Jesse:I mean, because
Dex:it, if, you know, if you ask a social worker, when you put your hands on them, it's assault. That's what we're dealing with,
Jesse:I'm not gonna disagree with you, but I'm put like this,
Dex:you're trying to justify your murder.
Jesse:these are more parts of just showing, like when we get down to the nitty gritty bitty of things, if we try to appease every little fucking detail and go by everything without using common sense, it's why we're going down the drain in America in certain aspects of just full common sense and right from wrongs.
Dex:You know, the down the drain aspect is always subjective. The thing about it is we're trying to raise productive adults, do productive adults use violence.
Walt:I got a question
Jesse:sometimes.
Walt:What is
Dex:think no times
Jesse:electric chair?
Dex:the electric chair is fucked up.
Walt:Is that, you know, that's a form of you did something wrong, so we're going to put electric volts.
Dex:But see that's also, that's also after the judicial process of innocent until proven guilty. Proven beyond a reasonable doubt, fine assessed and the sentenced indictment the whole night. That's, that's society making a decision. Or the state actually,
Jesse:that's society getting too long to take, get rid of one fuck up dude.
Dex:But federal, they don't have capital punishment. It's only in certain states.
Walt:So like you said, you went through the just process and jury as a parent over that kid, it's the same situation. It's just not drawn out like son or daughter, you did X, Y, Z and that was wrong. For that,, you're going to get, a punishment behind it.
Dex:So judge, jury, an executioner from one person
Walt:as a parent. Yeah.
Jesse:Yeah. Cause there's a law you lay down to your kids. Uh,
Dex:so so we're, we don't live in a democracy. We live in a dictatorship.
Jesse:when you raise kids I am the law. I am, I am the ultimate. I am the one who feeds you. I'm the one who take care of you. I'm the one who brought you in this world. It's my job to make sure that you are a respectful person in this world. It's both parents, nobody else's job but mine. And I'm gonna do everything I can to make sure that you are a disciplined, good person in the future and respectful. And some things I have to do that I don't want to do to you to make you that person.
Dex:Okay?
Walt:It is never pleasure when you have to spank a child, punish a child, take their PlayStation, it's never pleasure.
Dex:Why did you smile when you said take their, their PlayStation? You were
Jesse:I get more tired of playing?
Dex:Yeah. Okay. That's all right.
Jesse:but
Dex:be told, I will kick my kids off so I can play, but I usually, you know, in fairness, I try and give 'em a cutoff at like 10 o'clock. I'm mainly dealing with my oldest at 10 o'clock. I'm like, go to bed, and then I turn on my shit. I play for an hour or two, and then I'm done. What started the sauce is earlier my middle son was acting up and he kicked my youngest son. And the way I discipline in my house is, uh, you know, a series of timeouts and then what we call wall sits. And so if you've ever been in a gym, in public school, instead of running laps, they make you sit on the wall down at like a 90 degree angle with your feet and it tires your legs out and nothing refocuses, especially my middle son, more than having tired legs. he does that, he goes back to good behavior. But that is what I do for discipline. I never have to put my hands on him. And the last time I had to give him a wall was more than a month ago. I'm not saying it works all the time. What I'm saying is,
Walt:That's a source of pain that you are, inflicting on your child. So what you're saying you don't agree with you causing the pain, but you don't mind the pain coming from another source.
Dex:Well, I, you know, honestly, I borrowed it from the military or public school gyms. You act up, you run a lap, you act up, you do a wall, sit. I think once I bring quote unquote for, you know, a less than perfect word, violence into the situation, I don't think that translates well. I don't think that teaches him. Cuz with my three boys, they have different reasons for why they do different things with him. In particular, the middle son, his biggest behavior problem comes from his, way too much energy. And in the process of him having way too much energy, sometimes you have to bring that out of him. When he was three years old at 8 0 5 at night, he would run around the house or he'd get on the treadmill and he'd run, Jack, what are you doing? I'm trying to get my energy out. And whenever he did that, he slept great. And I think he had met that point in his night that he needed to get that last of the energy out.
Jesse:Well, alright, so as, whoops, doesn't work for all kids. Um, but most of the time it does and you start early and you don't usually have to do it later. In a sense it also teaches. I don't know, man, like for me too, like, because I got my butt kicked. I know if I hit somebody, I know it also inflicts pain on them too. So it's like one of those things where like, I'm not saying that's, it could be a dual process learning situation, but, but at the end of the day, like not all, I mean, I do the wall suits of my kids in public. I do, I also do it at the house as open is usually not the first, decision. It's usually been warnings and strikes before they get to that. There are some things that they just do so bad it'll just come. At this point, my nine and 11 year old, I, I don't really have to whoop their butt. I can just take stuff away and that's good enough, and I want, I'm glad that just works as whoop is not my first option. Some, kids it doesn't work and it's applicable to certain things. But I will say anytime I've ever popped my kids, I've always explained to 'em after, Hey, if you do what you're supposed to do, this won't happen. I don't like to do this. I don't want to do this again, so please just do what you're supposed to do, because I never like doing this, but I'm gonna make sure that you could become the best person in the world. And I also am, I have to keep, I have to be the person of my word. So usually before they got popped, they knew a popping would come if they were to continue to do something bad, because it was usually teirs or like strikes, whatever. So usually before they even got the boat open, they knew it was coming and I just had to let them know that I'm, I'm serious about the business. I'm not lying to 'em. There are consequences for your actions. At this point, if I take stuff away, that's good enough for them. But I think a part of like, when you get butt kicked early, you don't want it later, so you are more disciplined later because you understand that if you keep doing these things wrong the punishments get worse.
Dex:Mm-hmm.
Jesse:Because a whooping came with, if I gotta a whoop you, I'm, you're getting a whooping and you're getting everything taken away at that point. Mm-hmm. Because I've already tried those things. Mm-hmm. So, but then, you know, so I mean, I think there's teirs of ass whoopings. Um, it doesn't work on all kids.
Dex:He said tears.
Jesse:but, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can take that in two, it's two different kind of tears in that, you know,
Dex:It's both
Jesse:teirs to make, to get you to there and then tears when you actually get it. So, definitely. I mean, it's always rough to do. You don't wanna do it. Just like, I don't wanna take anything from my kids. I tell 'em, I don't wanna be the bad guy.
Dex:Listen, the next time your kids do something wrong, just gimme a call. I will beat your children, both of you. I, that's my promise, son. I'll just choke the shit out of them if you want. Whatever.
Jesse:Yeah. I don't need it. I don't need it.
Dex:You, but do you, you see how like e even in that jest, you guys are like, no, I don't got, want you guys touching my kids.
Walt:Well that's because, you know when, when I whoop my kid, if I have to It comes out a place of love and believe it or not. It's not, it is no hate. It's strictly because it need to be a correction in your actions. And I'd rather correct my kid than the police, or the streets because those two groups don't give a damn about my kid.
Dex:Especially since both of us have black children.
Walt:Right. And those groups don't care. I do care. So and that's even the whole purpose of the whole reason why when you said, I'll come whoop your kid ass. It is other people than me that can whoop my kid. You know? Like his godparents. His aunties. You know, people to that nature. Like if my sister whoop my son ass, it is like he come home and tell me like, you deserved it. I have no question about it. Because my mom raised us both, so I know that you earned that ass whooping.
Jesse:Now if the principal in the school whooped my kid without consulting with me and I will tell 'em no, I take care of it, then that's a problem. Don't put your hand on my kid, because at the same time, I'm the protector of my kid so I'm doing it outta love. I don't know what the next person agenda really is.
Dex:I concur.
Walt:That's why it is off limits.
Dex:Yeah. I definitely wouldn't let a teacher or a principal touch my children.
Walt:I agree.
Dex:I realize with my kids, they're literally three different people, and my oldest is the one I've had the hardest time figuring out. Because his motivations aren't always apparent and I notice a lot of things with him are very transactional. He's recently got into a little bit of trouble to where we've had to take away his cell phone because of some things that he did, which were far from cool. And I cannot talk about what they are, but see, when he came back in my life, he was 11 years old. And so he's already had so many years of living at that point, and he's already developed into who he is. He's already picked up good and bad habits that have already, developed who he is, where with my other ones, my middle child, he was three when he came in my life. And I've been the only father figure he is ever had. And then my youngest, of course, I was there since the day he was born, but, so I've been able to mold them along the way putting in like, I wouldn't say a fear, but just an understanding of. Things are gonna go my way and that's how it's gonna go. I give them reasons as to why I do things and why I don't do things. And with my youngest, it's been the easiest thing in the world. With my middle, he's kind of a hard ass. Juice. I love you, but god damn sometimes. But he's also out added the three of 'em. I'm just gonna say it. He's my favorite because I have the most first times with him. I've grown the most personally with him and I've had a lot of just inside jokes and fun with him. So I don't know it.
Jesse:can't, I can't believe you have a favorite.
Dex:I do have a favorite.
Jesse:I love all my kids the same. Somebody asked me a question the day I like them the same. I can't favorites.
Dex:I love them.
Walt:I love all my kids the same as well.
Jesse:Yeah.
Dex:You only have one, so that works out.
Walt:Yeah, You go,
Dex:I, I love all my kids. I don't understand my oldest, with my middle child, I can challenge him like, oh, you're not that fast at doing this or doing that, or You can't do this or do that. And he will do it and try and do it as fast as he can. And I know that's his motivation where with my youngest, achievement is his reward.
Jesse:So I've, I've had moments with my oldest, the the oldest one. Yeah.
Dex:And,
Jesse:I've let him know that we not gonna talk to me like that in this house. And if you want to, we can handle it
Dex:Oh, is is that
Jesse:because he is at the age where he can we'll handle it like, I , the way I would've said my dad would've held it. You know what I'm saying? If we gotta do old school dominance in this house, so you understand who you can talk to, who you can't talk to, we will handle it just like that. I have no problem folding you up, kid.
Dex:Is that why there's boxing gloves over there?
Jesse:Yeah. If he makes it to the boxing
Dex:gloves, is that his blood sample on the end of those boxing gloves?
Jesse:he has an option. You know what I'm saying? He has an option. We can put these gloves on or you can, you can get now, you know, but, um, you're not gonna talk to me that way in this house. So, I mean, it's, but it's, it's worked too, because I think if I didn't do those, some of those things, he was at the age where, especially, you know, I met him in his like beginning of teens, well, little right before teens and then, then he went through teens and it's one of those things where I had to establish at that point, because when you're in a teenage year, they, they talk back a lot, but, so you're not gonna talk back that back to me like that. I don't care if you're blood dad. I see myself as your dad. I treat you just like all my other children. I'm gonna treat you just like I would've treat any of them. So if you think you talk to me the way you want, We can address that now and I could fold you up and then we could talk about it later.
Dex:It's funny that you say that because with my oldest, I tell 'em like, you can, you can say whatever you want to me because I can't take it personally cuz I can't take you seriously. Because he'll say something, he'll be like, oh, fuck you. You know, you're an asshole. I'm like, yeah, I'm an asshole, but you're still grounded from playing the video games and I still make your food and I still do your laundry, and I still do all these things for you. So you can say, fuck you to me as much as you want, but if I don't do those things, you're not gonna do them for yourself.
Jesse:I would fold my oldest up so fast if you said that to me, Uhhuh first. I would ask him one more time. Uhhuh, before you say anything, I'm gonna ask you one more time. What did you just say? Mm-hmm. And then if he repeats it, like it's okay. Yeah. Fold him up.
Dex:up. Legally, I only have three more years with my oldest. He turns 16 in April, but I mean, we're, I'm still not gonna kick him out or anything like that. But I've told him like, you know, several times when he does things I'm like, listen, you know, if you were Jewish, you would be an adult right now because at. 13 years old, you're considered a man. You know, amongst them, you keep doing childish things. And this habit of doing childish things, when it continues into adulthood, you're gonna have to deal with it in a adult ways. And if you want to keep doing that, this is the time to mess up. This is also the time to fix that poor behavior. I apologize for the phone. If, uh, if this is the time to fix that poor behavior, if you want to fix it, you definitely need to fix it. Now. If you don't wanna fix it until later, the state will fix it for you or try to, and they, and they'll take you to what's called the Department of Corrections.
Walt:So, and that's exactly my point I made earlier, as fathers to make sure that the state of corrections never have to get involved. And so you need some sort of leverage to make sure that everyone knows, who's the man of this house. So it's a fold up or if it is a, you know, okay, you feel bad, then you go ahead and do this on your own at whatever age. You know what I'm saying? But you as a man, if all of us was right here if we was challenging each other, unless it could be a civil debate, it would probably come to like, who's the last man standing?
Dex:I mean, does it ha that,
Walt:how, that's how, that's how countries
Dex:is that how society are built?
Walt:Yes. That's how countries are born
Dex:Are you, wait a minute, are you sure
Walt:countries are born that way? That's you got right now we have Ukraine and Russia at war and basically the only thing that's going to end that war is Ukraine standing up for themself and letting it be known that, Hey, I'm a country, you're not going to dominate me. You're not going to control me. So Russia ideal is to control Ukraine. The only way they can stop that is to stand up for themselves. So what, bringing it back to what I was just saying with us is if we are right here, if we start attacking each other, we can only get respect. Like, okay, man, Dex hit me so hard that I don't want to go up against them anymore. Or, you know what I'm saying? To something to that nature. Other than that, who's going to be the dominant one?
Dex:See, you guys are thinking of, within zero something terms. Okay. I'm gonna give you a perfect example of what I mean when it comes to building a country, building a society, you need to manage resources. Okay. Earlier tonight, we watched a fight and it was, uh, hosted in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Before it was the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, there was the House of sod, the sods, or commonly known now as the Saudis, they end up creating a country in what was known as Arabia, which was an Arab area. It was just sort of tribes coming together.
Walt:right?
Dex:To all the listeners right now, I apologize for the noise and the offshoot that I'm kind of currently going through. This is just a little sidebar just to help me make my point about what builds a country and what builds a society. Getting back to the sods, there was already tribes and the sods because they were able to control large land mass and they had oil and they were able to sell that oil, um, to different countries around the world. Those other countries legitimize them as a country. That is how they came up with the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. All right?
Walt:Okay.
Dex:Because the house of SOD is the one that created, otherwise, they were just a bunch of different tribes. They've decided to unite the tribes and create a country that is what takes a country, not one person beating down on somebody else, a lot of people come together to decide to become a country or a society or a culture
Jesse:become a country, typically, it's a lot, well not say every time, but there's been plenty of wars to, to make countries
Dex:to sometimes it, it takes the war. So I'm not, I'm not saying there, there's a war involded . What I'm saying is what happens is people will decide to do one thing as one way. Do you think there's just some asshole sitting in the middle of Chad with a. Lawn hair and be like, yo, I'm gonna name this country after me. N o, that's not how that worked. It's a bunch of people together we're like, yo, this is our land. This is our culture. This is how we're going to protect it. This is how we're gonna flourish and these are our rules, or whatever. That's what that takes. Now, when you take that into like a microscale to like just say a family with you, you have the benefit of you and your wife run a double team on your son. You can yell at him, and then as soon as you need to catch your breath, your wife can yell at him or whatever and go back and forth and he's just, you know, I shouldn't say mentally attacked, but he's probably mentally exhausted from his two parents getting on his case. With Jesse and I, we have to run a zone defense, all right? Because we have multiple children, we have to deal with them different ways. With all three of my boys, they're three completely different personalities. So I have to discipline them three different ways. With my oldest, I have to take stuff away, and we have to get on this case with my middle because he has way too much energy. Sometimes it's a wall sits, not that often, but sometimes it's a wall sits. With my youngest, I usually just have to tell him something and he will stop doing whatever it is.
Walt:So, but you're, you're okay with inflicting pain and establishing authority. Basically, you're establishing authority by taking things away. By doing wall sits, or even by telling. So basically what you're saying is you have to listen to me. so what What happens if they don't listen to you?
Dex:then the consequences are, depending on the discretion, is either they're grounded, so they have some sort of restriction on their, be on their activities. In one case it's a timeout. Other cases it's a wall sits. But even with all my kids, they've gotten to the point to where they've had enough timeouts to where when I say something, it goes and very, very rare use that. Yeah. But, but you had to establish it at an early age. Yeah. But once you establish it, but I've never had to lay my hands on the,
Jesse:my kids. Okay. So I'll use the example. You have a kid that catches temper tantrum before they're even two years old. Mm-hmm. And they wanna think that's okay to just throw food and you tell 'em No, no, no. And they still keep doing it. You pop 'em on the hand, they don't do it no more. You didn't have to pop 'em hard, but you had to pop 'em enough to feel like that. And that was not comfortable. I didn't like that. I don't want that to happen again. Your kid never throws food again. Your kid wants to put their finger in the socket. You tell 'em. No, no, they, they're about to keep on. They, they're getting closer and closer. You pop 'em on the hand, they don't get close to that socket again cuz they don't want to feel that pop. I let them feel the pop of my hand instead of getting, filling the pop of the electricity of the house, making 'em fly across the room and possibly kill them. And then it also still works the same, but sometimes it takes a little more to really leave that in, their head. It doesn't work on all kids, but it works on most things in society and just in general. It's like right now Ukraine is fighting with Russia. And Russia's taking over certain parts.
Dex:They're not children though,
Jesse:Okay. But it's still, it is still a similar aspect or, I mean this even goes a bullying, but.
Dex:okay, we'll
Jesse:use a bully and we'll use your Ukraine. Mm-hmm. Ukraine right now is fighting Russia. If they, if they fight Russia long enough, just like Vietnam fought America long enough. Yeah. And we, we lose enough, you know, they lose enough people or they get enough damage. They're like, this shit ain't worth it. We'll, just back up. Let's not mess with them. A bully, a bully's messing with you. Nobody ever hits 'em back. Be, that's why he keeps on doing it. One kid decides to punch him in the mouth
Dex:and then it becomes the cost of conflict.
Jesse:And now that kid no longer bullies that kid because he doesn't want to get hit in the mouth.
Dex:I concur about that. But we're talking about two year old children who don't understand what they're doing, why they're doing and things like that. It's completely different when we're talking about adults.
Jesse:Well, no, wait, what's the two year? So now we're going to now say they're six. They understand they, they're seven. They understand right now, here goes a small little thing. If I am popping my kid because he's doing something he's not supposed to do. Right. Well, then that bully messes with him. And now my kid pops that bully and now that bully doesn't do nothing back to him. And maybe he just learned that from just getting popped and now he knows, Hey man, maybe I popped this guy. He's not gonna like it, he's not gonna mess with me no more.
Dex:Wow. You, take me back to this conversation, and this was about a year ago. Um, my man Wal was coaching the All-Star team, and there was one kid who played on a different team that happened to be on this Allar team. And my middle son is the only white kid on the team, I believe at the time. And he kind of got picked on a little bit by this one kid in particular because I guess that kid didn't think that he was worthy or whatever. And they talked stuff back and forth and it's whatever. And I, you know, I told Jack, don't worry about it. You know what I mean? He let him talk, he can say whatever he wants. And then at that point, at some point, a little while later, that kid put his hands on him and I had to go up to those kids and be like, yo, I told him verbatim, like, listen, You guys can talk shit back and forth to each other. I don't. I don't give a fuck. You know what I'm saying? It doesn't mean anything. All right? But as soon as you put your hands on my son, I'm giving him the enthusiastic permission to tune you up, all right? I want you to understand, I've seen my son punch out other kids. I've seen him beat up kids bigger than you. All right? If you want to get tuned up, keep putting your hands on him. If you don't want to tune up, walk away, but I'm gonna let you know now. I'm gonna let him knock you out. And there's nothing more humiliating than waking up from a concrete nap with your homeboys laughing at you. If that is something you want, put your hands on him. If that is not something you want, I would suggest you walk the fuck away.
Walt:So that situation,
Dex:Mm-hmm.
Walt:why wouldn't you say we're going to put the kid in time out?
Dex:top, first off, not
Walt:to hitting him afflicting pain.
Dex:I mean, what do I look like as a 40 year old man knocking out a fucking eight year
Walt:no, no, no, you're not gonna do it.
Jesse:But I'm saying you're
Dex:kid. So in in that, in that situation, he's not disciplining him because he's not understanding. There isn't a hierarchy between the two when at that moment he's literally just defending himself from getting hurt. And I let him know, this is what's gonna happen. I'm going to let my son punch you out until his arms get tired. I'm gonna let that happen because you don't wanna walk away from the situation.
Walt:So you told the kid, I'm going have my kid punch you out,
Dex:I'm gonna let him let, and I'm gonna cheer him on while he does it. If that's something you want, so, I gave him a
Jesse:choice.
Dex:That kid walked away. If that kid didn't walk away, Jack would've fucked his shit up.
Walt:So, right. I,
Dex:even, I wish I was joking about
Walt:In a sense, you are with, you know, punishment or
Dex:I'm with, I'm with
Jesse:with self-defense. So,
Dex:because in that moment it's
Walt:so, okay, even with self-defense, bringing pain on another human being is a spanking. Or at this point, at this point is, you know, punching, kicking, whatever. So, you're not really against inflicting pain on someone who's doing wrong. Okay. That's what you're telling me. That's what you just said.
Dex:Okay. I'm gonna retort with and I don't know if you've heard this before, but if you do, go ahead and finish it for me. Don't start none.
Jesse:Won't be none.
Walt:Won't be none.
Dex:Exactly.
Jesse:So check this out. Go ahead.
Walt:But that's what the kids do. They start something.
Jesse:So, alright,
Dex:and, hey, I let 'em know, gonna start something.
Walt:I'm talking about kids and in general, your kid, my kid, like they start something like, you know, the fastest way my kid can get a spanking is disrespecting his mother. Even faster than disrespecting me. Because we're gonna set a tone that this lady bought you in this world. Mm-hmm. You will not disrespect this lady.
Dex:I, I
Jesse:Okay. Now let me ask you, lemme ask you a question right there. Who typically does
Walt:the spanking? Uh, it's a mix. Uh, sometimes, you know, my wife does it on her own. Sometimes she taps out and defer to me.
Jesse:So you're typically, you don't play. Yeah. In other words, so don't you feel like he respects you just a little more?
Walt:Just a little more. I do.
Jesse:Now let's just use spanking as an example. Like what were using, that's what we're talking about.
Dex:about. I'm sorry. I, I just, before you get started, I just, I had this thought and I just wanted to share with you guys. I'm picturing. You and your wife tag teaming your son and she's like reaching over the ropes and you tag in and then come off the third turn Buckle. I, I for, I apologize for that visual. Not that I want to picture you and your wife and Lucido masks or anything, but you know, I, I'm picturing you guys coming off the third turn, buckle. Go.
Jesse:Jesse. I, I think it's more like a, um, it's, it's more, it used to be more like I, for me it was, it was more like I'm whoop your butt and I'm gonna tell you dad, and then that's pretty much tag. You're it right now he's whooping your ass. And, and usually you didn't want the second one because, you know, the second one, the anticipation one was the worst one. You, you'd act like you sleep or something, you know, but you messed up. You had to think about it, really thought about it and you're like, I ain't doing this shit again. But we're not the only animal on earth that does that. Think of, think of gorillas, right? Gorillas have a alpha male silverback gorilla. Yes. And anybody else, who else tries that? That gorilla. That gorilla. Whoops. His ass. Okay. And everybody else
Dex:Uhhuh
Jesse:respects him. He protects them. He doesn't wanna whoop everybody's ass, but if you disrespect him, he will. He don't always do it off rip neither. Mm-hmm. But if you do something bad enough, he has to put you in your place.
Dex:I I'm just gonna let you know now, the person that came up with the whole alpha male, beta male study, spent the rest of their life debunking their own work. They literally, they, it came out in like 72 or something like that, and then they spent the rest Andrew something and he spent the rest of this person's life debunking their own work. So that whole alpha male, beta male shit. Doesn't, it doesn't jive. It's not a real thing,
Jesse:no, it, it is a true thing.
Dex:It doesn't.
Jesse:That was such a Beta Male answer.
Walt:When you go, when you go with nature, it is a, a lion in the den. Everybody always is
Dex:lion. Why
Jesse:the head lion. It's the
Dex:keep comparing yourself to animals?
Walt:not freezing. How you talking about us? Refer yourself
Dex:young men. This is what I'm
Walt:I'm, but whenever you have a
Dex:question, uh,
Walt:with, in life, defer to nature.
Jesse:What does nature do in this moment? Like, seriously,
Dex:eat? They're young, but I don't like the taste of kids.
Walt:Well, well don't, well don't eat them. spank them. Just spank them. Don't eat them.
Jesse:Listen, It's like a lot of times just nature alpha male tend tends to be the one who protects, the flock or protects their own a lot of times. Okay.
Dex:Fucking pedantic ass argument.
Jesse:No, no, it is true. And he's the one that's willing to die. It's not true for his, my God.
Dex:not true.
Jesse:I would say this, I say alpha if you don't wanna at animals. I could br, I could put, I could put animals in the mix, but if you don't wanna look at animals alone, I will tell you this and man culture years to exist forever and ever. Okay. I especially, and if you look in the past, men are the ones who have fought the wars, the ones who are willing to die for their family and put their selves on the line because it's worth it.
Dex:They're all told the ones that it. But let me retort with a point that I, I still have because my sponsorship is kicking in, oh yeah. This, , conversation is currently sponsored by screwdrivers because sometimes the only tool in the boxes you need is a screwdriver and, uh, a little more orange juice. Anyway when lions hunt, who does the hunting?
Jesse:The female.
Dex:Oh, look at that.
Walt:But the male will come if they can't handle the job.
Jesse:So no, this, this,
Dex:that's point.
Jesse:This is actual factual though. The women, they do hunt, but the men still protect the pride.
Dex:I mean we, if you think about it, we all protect because I, you know, this is, I guess I'm still trying to process this whole thing, but with my oldest son, he kind of did some shit that I'm just like, are you fucking kidding me right now? And. Whenever we have to get on him about something, my wife is always the one that finds out and she starts and she talks to him or she yells at him, I should say. And she's emotional about it because it really affects her. And I'm a little bit more measured. I'm, I'm watching the whole thing and I try and get all the aspects of it, and then I formulate my thoughts to tell him. And then, um, I, I will give him, once she emotionally exhaustive, I will give him a scenario that I know he'll understand as why you shouldn't do A, because you don't want B to happen to you. And how He's 15 and he's only three years away from this directly affecting his life for the rest of his life. And he, he understands it. Once he's exhausted, I'm not gonna say that works all the time. I think it works for a long enough time until the next time he tries to get away with some bullshit. That is what I understand. I think spanking him during that time is not gonna fucking help him. It's not gonna help him understand, even if I explained it to
Jesse:him well, I mean, yeah, because
Dex:at at any
Walt:15
Dex:you still have to have to. explain him.
Jesse:I mean, he had to start early and you start early, so you don't have, you really, I don't have to whoop him in.
Dex:that's the problem everything that he's learned is transactional. And with the other two, it's, very much understood of like, they know their boundaries. With my middle son in particular, Godammit, he tends to push his boundaries the most. But he, that's also part of his nature. He pushes his boundaries. I reel his little ass back in. He will try and push 'em further. I reel him back in further. That's why he has, that's why he's the fastest kid in our team, because he has strong ass legs from having to be wall sat. So many times.
Jesse:My son beat me the other day, just won't say that, but he, he didn't win today. He won, he beat him today, but he got, he got beat the other day.
Dex:He, he, he beat him in a race.
Jesse:Yeah. Yeah. He beat him, uh, that, that last, that first practice race we did, but he but he did. Your son did beat him today.
Dex:Okay. Okay. All right.
Jesse:Barely.
Dex:So this is really funny for us because normally every team Jack has ever been on in his entire athletic history, he's been the fastest child and the only two other children that have been able to beat him, one, um, his parents, both of his parents ran track. The other one is Jesse's son and taken forever for Jesse's son to beat him. And I guess it's happened. I wasn't there to witness it, but it happened and so be it. I guess Jack needs some more wall sits so.
Walt:Yeah. So now you encouraging the wall sits,
Dex:Nah, I'm not encouraging at wall sits I want him, I just want him to be a good, functional human being. I want him to be able to think about his actions before he does
Walt:And that's a great that's great what you said, because there we can agree. Mm-hmm. We both just want our children to be functional, you know, adults and, to give something positive to society. And so that's why we do what we do, where there is, a popping on the hand or a taking of the PlayStation or, whatever the situation may cause for. So we do agree on that, that, you know, we want our kids to be functional in this society, leave something positive to this world. And so I do think that it's different ways of doing it. It's no one way, but in society, what makes. The military's strong because people know not to fuck with the military,
Dex:yeah. But us keep,
Jesse:keep, because they get a pow pow if they fuck with 'em.
Walt:Exactly. So, you know, that sense authority and a sense, you know, standards of what can and what cannot be done, what will and what will not be tolerated. And so you have to set those boundaries one way or or another. And I just think sometimes those boundaries have to be set, with a spanking because it, it is going to become a time where your kid is stronger than you, but they have to, it has to be instilled in them. Damn right. It has to be instilled in them that, Hey, that's daddy. I know not to fuck with daddy,
Dex:But
Jesse:hey, my dad's, my dad's in his sixties and I still know if he is me, it'll hurt. Like, I mean, he can drop me, you know? So I still respect my pops. I mean, he, he, if he, if we fight for a while, but I still wouldn't try,
Dex:well shout
Jesse:out. He's still the early man. Yeah.
Dex:shout out Big j I, um, I think you guys are coming at this, especially with the whole military aspect. It's still, because military is just an extension of politics via force where everything is usually diplomacy. And then, you know, it's like, alright, this is the last resort if diplomacy doesn't work. But if you still set diplomacy and set an understanding, you won't ever have to get divorced. And that comes with a certain level of conditioning. So with my two youngest, I was able to condition them at the youngest age as possible before it affected them later on. I still think out of my three kids, My middle son is gonna end up making me a grandfather first, cuz I see the way little girls look at him, especially girls that are just a couple years older than him. They're just like, there's something about his fucking charm. He's either gonna be a cult leader or a senator, but it's something about his charm to where he affects those people. I see it a lot with girls now. My oldest son, he's still at that weird, awkward stage and he's trying to figure shit out and he keeps doing everything wrong and he's not learning from his lessons. That is my biggest problem with those two.
Jesse:My shit, my, I'm well might shoot myself in the foot with this one, but, uh, nah, I'm not gonna
Dex:Okay,
Jesse:Men raise men, women raise boys.
Walt:Right. I do agree. It takes a man to. To instill that manhood and a and a boy.
Dex:Can you guys smell that bullshit before it comes outta your mouth? Because I can smell it.
Jesse:It's scientifically proven. Not saying that men can't become, can't become good men with mothers. Mothers do a great job, but some of the best men are raised by women and it's, it's a, it's a easier your see, it's more successful. Not to say, I mean, she's done a great job. Don't get it twisted, but I'm just saying that there are certain aspects that men instill so it makes it easier.
Dex:I think the most
Jesse:probably shouldn't have said that.
Dex:Yeah. Probably not. This is recording
Jesse:No, no. Boys need men in their life. I think girls need men in their life. You know,
Dex:I think kids need both parents, right? And I think the most stable situations bring about the best children, the best adults, the best young adults. I think once you, you offer that stability at a very early age. You know, coming up with routine, you know, establishing expectations, you know, because that's all really discipline is, is establishing expectations for behavior. When you establish those things, you establish like, oh, okay, when you wake up in the morning, you brush your teeth, you, um, eat your breakfast and you get ready to go to school. When you come from school, get snack, you do your homework. All these things are expected of you, and you get into that routine. So once you have to do something that's outside of the routine, you know how to adjust to it. That is my perspective of it. But I can be completely wrong. I personally think I'm raising one of my three children, has gotta be a sociopath and haven't figured out which one technically speaking
Walt:well, you need a start spanking that kid. Yeah. You that ass change this path.
Jesse:That's exactly what be thinking. Like yeah.
Walt:Change this path by spanking.
Jesse:None of my kids gonna become a sociopath. And if they do, I'll take up about myself. Cause that's my damn job.
Walt:Yeah, right.
Jesse:I gotta raise the best kid ever. You know, I always tell people this man, like, people get mad. Like if your child, like I, I say this and this is like the worst thing for people to admit, but if you raised a kid and your kid killed somebody and they got shot for it, you can't be mad that got shot. You taught 'em better than that. So
Dex:hopefully you taught them better than that. But I mean,
Jesse:I mean, you do everything you can to teach your kid, right? And they can still go the wrong way. But as a parent it's your job to put 'em, you know, send 'em in the right direction. Which is another podcast situation I got going on. Yes. Which is the next one, you know, for you guys listening in is, uh, should kids be allowed to have. Change their sex before they are adults.
Dex:Oh shit. Are we about to go
Jesse:into that episode two? That'll, that'll come in for the future. It's, we can do it now or later,
Dex:We can do it. Let's
Jesse:stay tuned.
Dex:But the, um, the thing also I think is with, with my oldest in particular, because I, I have a blended family, all right? I'm married into, into a woman who was, uh, she was a single mother, and I've met my oldest son's biological father, and I see more and more of that nature versus that nurture. No matter how hard I try. I see it, and it is frustrating because I don't want him to end up like his biological father. I really don't, because that would be incredibly scary.
Jesse:Is some of it generic?
Dex:Genetics? I don't know if it's, you know, I'd say a lot of it is genetics, but I don't think all of it is. I think it's, it's, it's like situational inheritance. Um, it's, you know, especially with, with like, uh, you know, African American diaspora, we keep inheriting trauma from other people and then we pass it along with ourselves, which is a whole nother episode altogether. But you can see like, okay, these things happened back in the day and we've passed it on. We don't know why, why the reasons why we do it. This is part of the reason why I wanted this as the subject matter of tonight. I don't think we should physically, Harm the people that we love. And I don't think we should teach them to physically harm the people they love. There has to be other ways to discipline a child. And I think once we focus on the cerebral aspect of things, teach them to think before they do on a long enough timeline, they'll start thinking about what they do. But it comes from stable homes, it comes from two parent homes. It comes from establishing those patterns early as possible. And when you don't get a chance to establish those patterns early as possible, anything can happen.
Walt:I want to ask a question real quick.
Dex:Yeah, go ahead.
Walt:Okay. Have you ever had a ass weapon or a spanking?
Dex:I have.
Walt:Okay. How long did that pain last?
Dex:Long enough for me to end up having a podcast talking about it.
Walt:Exactly. So the pain, you know, wears off 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes
Dex:physic physically. Sure. Physically.
Walt:Okay. That's the, okay, so physically 20 minutes. The ass whooping, pain wears off. Right. We can agree on that. Okay. Have you ever overexerted yourself with exercise?
Dex:Yes.
Walt:How long did it take that pain to wear off?
Dex:I mean, it depends on the exercise.
Walt:Okay. If you was to go and do 300 pushups right now. How long would that pain last? Just generally thinking
Dex:at my age, probably a week, but
Walt:well, there you go. There you go. Exactly.
Dex:but, but
Walt:that's, so let, but
Dex:constructive, you know, cuz I, I see where you're going with
Walt:this. But the pain, the pain that of, you know, noodle legs lasts longer just because I had the kids doing the, the, the glove on the ground come up and throw, and I was doing it with 'em. I was in pain for a week. I felt that remnants of those squats and coming up and throwing position uhhuh for a week, literally. And so doing those, you know, you know, the squats, the, you know, the wall squads or whatnot,
Dex:wall sits.
Walt:Wall sits that pain lasts as days and even though it is in a good, it is a muscle that you're building. So it's, you know, actually a positive aspect, you know. But that pain lasts as days. Days. I'm telling you, I'm telling you days, especially before they're in shape. Well, so you say you, you resorted to this type of, um, you know, punishment or discipline. that discipline several times. So now he could be more established to where it's, it's benefiting him as being the fastest kid. But to get to that endurance level, it was painful at one point in time.
Dex:but I, I want you to understand Yes. But I want you to understand the reasoning, right? For his poor behavior, the motivation for his poor behavior was an abundance of energy,
Walt:right?
Dex:he has an abundance of energy, we end up with poor behavior. So then I, I refer back to the root cause. In order to not, for him not to have an abundance of energy, you gotta kind of wear out his legs a little bit, all right? Now, if it was pushups, that would be one thing, but for him in particular, it's his legs. Once I wear out his legs, his mind is refocused and he does do it. I don't have to put my hands on him. I don't have to take off my belt. I don't have to humiliate him and embarrass him. I have to.
Walt:instill some sort of pain.
Dex:well, you can call it pain or whatever, but
Jesse:you,
Dex:I have to give him a moment to refocus his mind, and I don't even call it discipline with him. I call it a refocusing. Even with my son, my, my youngest son, earlier he was talking about something, I don't remember the details of it, but I was like, listen, you can either do what I told you to do or you can sit in timeout and think about it. And then when you come outta timeout, do what I told you to. Those are your two choices. So, which is, do you want to do what I told you to do and do it now and get it over with, or do you want to go and think about it in a place that, where you don't want to think about it, think about it, and then come a, come back and then have to do it anyway? He chose the former instead of the latter, and look at that. I didn't even have to do anything. No, no effort was exerted on my behalf.
Walt:And that's the whole purpose of, you know, the popping up the hand, we popped the hand so you don't stick the fork the electric.
Dex:I mean, that, that was the metaphor though. I mean, well, in a metaphorical
Jesse:is a factual thing. You do a kiss, okay, I'm gonna use example here. Okay. Ass isn't just the discipline, it's, it's, it's given, given the ass open, taking away things or whatever consequence your kid has in explaining, and then also teach 'em the mindset around that. So, for example, my dad, you know, always would talk about these things. My mom would teach me in actions and of course say things. But my dad was more on detailed of why. Okay, so, so every action you do has a consequence whether it's good or bad. Yeah. Okay. Just like when you experience bad things, you learn what not to do. When you experience good things, you learn what to do. My dad would say yo, instead of being a victim of things or staying sad about something, figure out why that happened and change it. Don't dwell on that. So if I got popped, I learned not to do it. And if I knew if I did it, I knew what the consequences were gonna be and I would weigh them out. And I knew I didn't wanna get popped. So I learned real early compared to others. And when I saw my sisters get popped the scene, it wasn't nice. But I also learned,
Dex:You from their mistakes.
Jesse:Yeah. I saw the bad and I saw the good. I saw the good of why my dad popped them because they don't need to do that. The bad was. What they did. So I learned, and this is how I try to put things in life. Like I see the good and the bad from things, you know, like I, you know, what not to do and what to do, and that's how people have to look at things. And if it's something you shouldn't do, don't use that excuse or something you experience on why you feel this way or you still, you still kind of go in that way, figure out what, what you should do or figure out how to take things in the right way to where it's not gonna fuck you up forever. But I mean, it's, it's, it is literally the, I think the program of the mind is like controlling the mind and understanding, uh, why the why.
Dex:Yeah. But if we,
Jesse:and what I,
Dex:I agree with understanding the why and if we instill in our children critical thinking at a very early age as to why
Jesse:they do things
Dex:Like, um, my youngest son was crying about something earlier and I asked him why, and he explained it out to me. And then I asked him, is that a reason to cry? And he's like, well, yeah. And I'm like, well, explain to me why that's a reason to cry. And he kept trying to, you know, explain it to me. And I kept illustrating to him, like, that's not really a reason to cry. And eventually, uh, uh, on a long enough conversation, it was like three questions in, he realized he doesn't really have a reason to cry and he got over it and he moved on. But I didn't have to throw my hands on him or anything like that to get him to stop crying. I just had to let him identify his feelings, and see if they were valid. His feelings were valid, but they weren't that valid.
Jesse:So, I, I'll tell this, uh, if I do something and I know that there are only, only one or two things gonna happen,
Dex:happen,
Jesse:I'm either gonna get taken something away, something's gonna get taken away, or you're just gonna conver get a conversation. When I got that third one there, I'm gonna get a ass whoop on top of that. That's another extra thing for some reason that would deter you away from that. So a talking and getting something taken away. Well sometimes kids, some kids will go, well, they'll take this away and then I'll just use this instead. Or they figure out ways around that. Or when, um, push the boundaries. Yeah, they push the boundaries. Or if they're just gonna get talking to, they know what to say and how to act for the moment. And then they kind of know how long to act Right. Until they can get away and do something else again. Yeah. And then they'll, and then you might change your, you might change how fast you react. So then they'll just alter that. But when the ass whoop is in there, it changes it all really. I, I
Dex:me ask you this, at, at what age was the last time you guys got her an ass whooping?
Walt:Uh, for me, I would say, I was, I would say for me, like. 15, 14 or 15 Uhhuh. But it was always a threat
Dex:but But was it something that you had did before?
Walt:The last time I got a whooping. Yeah. That's interesting. I don't think I ever got a whoop before it. Before.
Dex:Okay. What about
Jesse:you? I would say, I would say, um, it was a, it high school years, you know, like, and it was more for, mainly at that point it was because I was starting to talk back and my dad would address it fast. Mm-hmm. And it worked. And it wasn't, it wasn't really pain. He just popped me in my chest, boom. And it was enough to make me pop back, like, especially as a wall. It hit the wall
Dex:Did did your shoulders clap?
Jesse:Nope. Nope. I mean, he popped me hard enough to just say, Hey. It was like a shock. Like, whoa.
Dex:like you're in
Jesse:in charge? Yes sir.
Dex:know who's in charge. Well,
Jesse:it, it wasn't even just about in charge, it was respect. So I gotta respect him, I gotta respect others. You know, he just was quicker to address situations if I was being disrespectful, which made me less disrespectful to others out in the open, you know what I'm saying? So,
Dex:yeah. Yeah. I mean, they couldn't, some yeah.
Jesse:They couldn't popped me, but he still taught me the thought process of like me needing to shut the fuck up. Yeah. When I'm not supposed to be talking and being respectful to my elders and stuff like that. So, I mean, I didn't get popped a lot, I guess, when I got older, but there was times where I'm glad he did because had he not, bro, it would've got worse and worse and worse. And I know it would've.
Dex:Do you think it would've gotten, do you really think it would've gotten worse, or do you think you would've eventually learned, because you seem to be, because I, I'm gonna be honest with you, and my wife illustrated this point earlier. She's listened to multiple episodes of this podcast, and she has said that you have, for lack of a better word, have evolved, but she understands, especially with the episode with Big J, where you came from. But she says that you have evolved. So do do you think you would've learned without me talking to you, evolved to who you are now? Without me talking to you?
Jesse:I,
Dex:because if not, I can go upstairs and get my bell.
Jesse:Nah, I, I, I was say, I don't know, she may, okay, maybe I have evolved, but she may not have known what all I really understood and brought to the table and all my, um, aspects or perspectives I really had on things, cuz mm-hmm. I'm a, I may say things one way and I also understand the other way and I can understand both sides and see it from both perspectives, but it's all sometimes situational, which perspective makes more sense to me. Sometimes
Dex:uh,
Jesse:or sometimes you just stick with what you feel is the right. If that makes sense.
Dex:I, I concur and I realize, and you know, not in defense of my wife, but in defense of the situation, she sees you through a purview of how much she knows about you. Whether it's, you know, our kids playing together, you inviting us over for the game, or um, us coming down recording the podcast and then her listening to it later, she has this. You know, this understanding of you, you know, all of her understanding fits neat into this little box. Well, she's noticed that your understanding of things have been outside of that box. That is what she has illustrated to me, and it's, we've had more than one conversation about this in particular.
Jesse:I'd have to get like examples what, what they are to really, to really be able to like, yeah, maybe I have, I mean, I, I've never been a person where my, I'm always set in my ways. I mean, cuz we all have core values where we are set, but I think it's always good to change for the better. And, and no one's perfect. So I'm, I'm always changing. Um,
Dex:See, that's where I think this podcast really comes in, man. I think you and I, we, we've come to different understanding understandings, you know, on things like, I understand you better, you know, from our conversations on the baseball field, you know, molding over to our conversations, uh, with a beer molding over to our conversations onto podcasts and us joking about different things and what we understand about the world. And then now that we've en vaulted Walt into the fold, I am going to literally need to buy another mic, man, because I fucking love having you in the room, bro.
Walt:Oh, man. Thank you, brother.
Dex:You don't understand, man. I love, man, I love having you as a guest, dude, but I, I understand both of your feelings on things and I understand where they come from, and I also understand, it helps me understand why I disagree with those things. Not everything, but it helps me understand why I disagree with those things. So with that, I want to, not that I'm taking over this podcast or anything, I realize I've been talking for like six minutes, but I want to actually put it out to the audience. What do do you think spanking your kids or not spanking your kids? How much, how far? Where would you go? Um, I. I still don't have a reason to put my hands on my kids, and I don't want to teach them to put their hands on their kids. I want them to be able to use their words, talk it out, coming up with critical, rational thoughts as to why something is not good for their child and have their child understand it. But I also understand the level of understanding and emotional experience that children have is very limited. So when you speak with them, you have to work within those boundaries. That is my take on it. What about you, Walt? I wanna get Walt's, uh, perspective before I get to J.
Walt:House. Yes. Uh, my perspective is, you know, a three is, is it's almost impossible to reason with a three-year-old because like you say, they don't have any experiences in life. So one thing that they come fast to understand is, you know, uh, popping on the hand, you know, so that lets them know, you know, that's a bad ideal, you really fast, you know? And so it's, I'm not gonna sit there and go back and forth with a three-year-old for 2, 3, 4 hours, you know, like me and my wife would do they have , the knowledge, the experience to, to even go back and forth. Cuz if I'm telling a three year old something, I'm a hundred percent correct on what I know.
Dex:See, you're just gonna come off the third turn buckle.
Walt:Well, not
Dex:in with an elbow. Well, it's maybe the second turbo. Well, Yeah, you
Walt:just from the ground.
Dex:a ddt. Just a d dt.
Walt:You know? No top rope is necessary. know, You don't gotta get on the top rope
Dex:They'll smell what the Walter's cooking. Yeah. Okay. All right. All right. I got that. Yeah.
Walt:'em it. But, um, I'd rather let 'em smell that then that electricity charted brain, and then I'm looking like, man, I wish I coulda, prevented them from, self-inflicting this stuff on themselves. If it was just a little pop, that's not gonna hurt 'em. You know, in the long run we just established that the pop wears off really fast. I mean, now I'm not speaking on abuse. Now that's one that's totally different, but a pop, you know, on the hand. Like, Hey, no, this is wrong. Action. I'm, that's the fastest way to communicate with a two year old opposed to trying to use literary terms, that I read in the Shakespeare poem, you know, something like that. They're not going to grasp that. So I'm not even going to put myself through that agony. I'm trying to make a three year old understand, you know, literature, you know,
Dex:so you've never held a skull and been like, yo, and pointed to the skull,
Walt:listen, listen to will
Dex:gave us a
Jesse:or not to be little motherfucker.
Dex:gave a little, little queen.
Walt:don't got all that I don't have all that in
Dex:in. so I apologize. I apologize.
Walt:Yeah, man. I don't have that in me. So you know, it gonna be a quick popping out of love. Literally out of love. That's why it's not open to the public to, to, to pop my kid. Yeah.
Dex:Yeah. Cause
Walt:you know, just be honest. No one loves my kid. Like I kid or his mom.
Dex:Yeah.
Walt:You know, I will never question. His mom. Sometimes we may talk afterwards, but I would never correct his, his mom for popping him in front of him. I'm be like, well, you know, later we will say, Hey baby, well what happened? Oh, okay, nine and, and, and 99% of the time I'm like, oh, I, I understand. But, uh, yeah, that's why I stand on it. Like, you know, I'm not finna go have a big debate with a three year old because they just can't comprehend what a 43 year old comprehends So it's not no need of me trying to, I'm gonna explain it to 'em. And they still may not even understand, like, you stick that fork in there, it's gonna eletrocute you, but they don't even know what the hell electrocution is. And then what is that? Then I gotta explain that. It's the reason why you're waking up and you're blinking this I don't have, I can't go through all that. I mean, I'm just telling, like to cut to the chase. So, you know, at that time they trying to stick a fork into the, the electric outlet. I'm going to pop 'em, pop their hand to let 'em know that's the wrong ideal. Excuse me.
Dex:Nah, nah, that's fine.
Walt:the wrong ideal. So, know, and like I said, it's a hundred percent out of love On that.
Dex:So what, you got Jay?
Jesse:Walt really talks with his hands. He had knife hands. He was banging on the table. He's very passionate about this.
Dex:Luckily there was a fly there and he took care of it. Appreciate you Walt. Thank for Thank you for disciplining that fly.
Jesse:Thank you for saying that. With the double knife hands,
Dex:like a action figure bro.
Jesse:at the end he kind of patted on his chest, you know,
Dex:got the kung fu grip.
Jesse:pop, pop.
Dex:Alright. Alright. What you got Jay? Listen
Jesse:like, like Shakespeare says to be or not to be, that is a question, but that ain't no fucking question. When I'm a parrot, it's my choice to make sure that you are going to be respectful and responsible and I will try to talk to you first. But like I tell my kids how many times I gotta talk to you and you know when you hear them their answer, they go once. Exactly.
Dex:Then why is this a third time? So
Jesse:that's what I'm really thinking in my head. But I'm like, that's usually when I'm a public, cuz I would've popped the ass if we weren't a public. You know what I'm saying? Um, And that's only cuz I just don't feel like dealing with people even during that time. Like if I pop my kid and, and somebody else says something to me about popping my kid, probably, it's probably gonna be like, yo, mind your fucking business. That's how I really feel. But I have to be like respectful in front of my kids. Like, Hey, can you mind business please? And in my head I'm thinking, I'd whoop your ass too,
Dex:but, but they're sitting in the sporting goods at Walmart loading their gun. Yeah, go ahead.
Jesse:But I guess the point is listen, yeah, of course I try to talk to my kids and like well said, when they're three, sometimes they don't understand. So sometimes that pop gotta work cuz it's better to pop them, to let that electricity shock them and pop 'em. So I mean, it's one of those things where now all kids need butt weapons for a long time. Some kids may not, you may have that, you know, a little baby Jesus, and you could tell him something, he's gonna listen. But for those, kids that are hardheaded, that don't listen, sometimes they need a poppin. And it works, it works for me. When I was a kid, they said I had adhd. Okay. And I was very hyper and my parents popped me. And it wasn't cause I was hyper, but if I was wrong, they popped me. That might've helped the situation and it worked for me. I applied still to this day because I never felt beat. I never felt not loved. It was explained to me why it happened. I understood why it happened. I understood that if I did something wrong, I had a consequence. And it wasn't always like a pop as a consequence, I didn't know what the consequences was gonna be. But I knew if I didn't listen to my parents, the consequences were only gonna get worse. And because they started early, I'd made better decisions later in life so that it didn't have to happen. And, you know, when I got older, I think I wrote, I wrote an email to my parents and I, I thanked them on the things they did that I didn't understand back then. But understand now. Like when I got older, I was like, I understand why you popped me. I got in trouble for this. Y'all hired me about this. I was, you know, you guys always made sure that worked for everything I got because it was them teaching me how to be a human being in society and especially a man in society. So my daddy used to always say, you can't fail. And he did things to make sure that I was staying on that track. So if a poppin was it, it was it. But point is is that, I mean, I'm not saying violence is the answer, but violence has solved a lot of things in nature in general. And sometimes violence helps peace or creates peace. So, you know, we, like legally it may be assault, but I, as a parent, I don't give a fuck what people think. I'm gonna raise my kid to be the best kid ever. And you know, I almost, I, I mean of course we can do everything we can and our kid could be fucked up, but it's our job to make sure they move in the right direction and we gotta do everything we can to make sure they do so.
Dex:okay. Well, with that, I am going to again, put it to the audience. What do you think First turn, buckle. Second, third, uh, turn Buckle Third. Turn Buckle. DDTs. Um, who has the best view? Me, Walt. Jay. I don't know, man. If y'all got a better idea, let me know. But this is perception and reality. I am Dex from my man. Walt from my man. Jay, we all want you to respond. We want to hear from you. We want you to, um, check us out at. Uh, what is our Twitter? Dude, I forget. I've been drinking
Jesse:perspective in reality at, I believe
Dex:at Twitter.
Jesse:The perspective in reality. No. Yeah. The perspective and the reality at,
Dex:Fuck it. Just go to par podcast.com. There'll be a place for you to mention this shit. God dammit.
Jesse:Hey,
Dex:and um, yeah, definitely share with a friend. I want to hear what you motherfuckers
Jesse:saying, dude,
Dex:seriously.
Jesse:To, to whoop or not to whoop. That is a question.
Dex:That is the question. Is it no blur to spank a child? Is it nobler to speak them out? What is rotting in Denmark? Just thank you and check us out on the next episode. Best way to support the channel is to either go to our Patreon or to share this with a friend. Whatever you do, let us know what you think. Chow.
